I point out babies are not all perfect and precious as some would believe. Some are downright @#$%^, @#$%^&*@, manipulators, and criminals. How do you know it's not little Al-Capone being aborted? Saves us a lot of trouble later.

Nate:

The innocent until proven guilty principle voices the opposite view, that it is worse to punish the innocent than to let the guilty go free. Augustine seems to agree; citing this as part of the need for divine law, because human law, in trying to eliminate evils may also do away with many good things and the interest of the common good, which is necessary for human society, may be adversely affected.

Pro-Choice Advocate D:

Don't talk about "divine law" to me. I'll tear it apart so fast you won't see what I'm doing.

Nate:

I'd count myself unlucky if you didn't "tear it apart". If it being able to be torn apart is the truth, then I must accept it.

Pro-Choice Advocate D:

Alright. Divine law is more flawed than any human law because it was written by a bunch of priests with an outmoded version of "right and wrong" that is so biased and extreme that to enforce it would push most American's right out of the country. You can't pick out parts of "divine law" that you like and ignore the stuff about sexism and racism and all the other hate-inducing stuff. "Divine law" is basically some "holy man" telling everyone else what he thinks some divine being wants to see.

Nate:

What you call divine law, I call human law.

Pro-Choice Advocate D:

"Then define "divine" law in your eyes. The word of God? Let me know when you hear him, and tell him I'll tell Satan hi for him.

Nate:

Divine law is law that exists to punish all true evils. Who's to say what the true evils are? No one has to say them. They will punish themselves in time. The divine law picks up where human law leaves off.

Pro-Choice Advocate D:

Well if divine law will take care of everyone who aborts what's the point of making it illegal in human law? What's the point of making ANYTHING illegal? "If you do something "evil" like murder or rape, you'll get what's coming to you. Mmhmm.

Nate:

To help people to be good.

Pro-Choice Advocate D:

How do YOU decide what's good" and "evil"?

Nate:

I don't decide. I don't make laws either. The purpose of laws is or should be to cause people to be good, that good being what the lawmaker has determined using reason.

Pro-Choice Advocate D:

And the lawmaker at this point deems abortion legal and, by your definition, "good". That isn't enough for you?

Nate:

You have ignored part of my definition. Abortion was deemed legal, but whether it was deemed legal by using reason is debatable.